In a recent episode of the podcast You Should Know, hosted by Ryan Leary and William Tincup, John Phillips, Group Vice President of Employee Experience at ServiceNow, made a compelling case that organizations are measuring AI adoption the wrong way. Phillips argued that counting how often employees use AI tools misses the point entirely. What truly matters, he said, is whether jobs get done faster, with less friction, and with better outcomes for both the employee and the business. This conversation arrives as CHROs face mounting pressure to demonstrate AI productivity gains across increasingly fragmented technology stacks.
Phillips was blunt about the current state of AI in the enterprise. 'Every system of record is now got their little AI agent and it's creating chaos for these practitioners,' he told the hosts. 'We're watching this like train wreck of productivity.' He explained that many organizations have purchased multiple AI tools that do not communicate with each other, leading to inefficiencies rather than improvements. Phillips cited examples of customers arriving with eight purchased AI tools plus one they built themselves, none of which integrate seamlessly.
On measurement, Phillips predicted a fast pivot: 'We're going to quickly stop talking about AI adoption as tool usage, and we're going to start looking at the outcomes and jobs to be done.' He emphasized the importance of focusing on the two-sided value exchange between employee and employer. For instance, if a tool claims to save an employee 23 hours, what happens to that time? Is it reinvested in more meaningful work, or does it simply add to the employee's workload? Phillips stressed that the goal should be to reduce friction and improve outcomes, not just increase tool clicks.
The discussion also delved into human performance and employee engagement. Phillips noted that 'high performance has both extreme focus and extreme recovery. It's in any environment, the highest performers in the world have those things.' He connected this to the collapse of work boundaries post-COVID, which has led to burnout and an internal dialogue of 'am I enough.' Leary and Tincup revisited the limitations of traditional engagement surveys, with Tincup pushing Phillips on whether discretionary effort is a truer metric. Phillips agreed, advocating for hyper-personalization over one-size-fits-all pulse data.
ServiceNow's approach, as described by Phillips, involves layering an agentic companion across existing systems rather than ripping and replacing them. This 'AI control tower' vision stitches together 15 LLMs and 100 systems, providing a unified interface for employees. Phillips explained that this approach helps companies avoid the chaos of multiple disconnected AI agents.
Phillips also shared a broader philosophy shaped by his time in refugee camps, arguing that 'skills and talent is universal and opportunity is not.' This perspective informs ServiceNow's commitment to making work better for all employees, regardless of their background.
The episode, part of the WRKdefined Podcast Network, is available now wherever podcasts are heard. With more than 3.9 million verified monthly listeners, You Should Know delivers unfiltered conversations for people invested in the evolving world of work.
